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  #61  
Old 09-16-2017, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by PickleBottom View Post
An issue with the definition of God changing until every person settles on a definition that they can accept is that this does not lead to any dogma.
And there's no money in that...

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  #62  
Old 09-16-2017, 10:19 AM
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I have a friend, Vinny, who formed (or co-formed) the group Agnostic Front. Did anyone ever hear of them? I listened to a recording at a studio once about twenty-five years ago. Their singing is more like angry shouting. But, even that -- Hardcore Punk -- found a place in the music world. The group did a lot of overseas touring. Pretty sure they are on youtube.

Last edited by Cityboy; 09-16-2017 at 10:36 AM..
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  #63  
Old 09-16-2017, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
I have a friend, Vinny, who formed (or co-formed) the group Agnostic Front. Did anyone ever hear of them? I listened to a recording at a studio once about twenty-five years ago. Their singing is more like angry shouting. But, even that -- Hardcore Punk -- found a place in the music world. The group did a lot of overseas touring. Pretty sure they are on youtube.
Yes, yes YES! I think I met them! It was back in the eighties - I was waiting tables in a little cafe. They all came in together - big fellas with long hair. I remember because the kitchen had been slammed all day and there was only two options left on the menu. They left after an hour because they just couldn't decide...
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  #64  
Old 09-16-2017, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Grace Gabriel View Post
Yes, yes YES! I think I met them! It was back in the eighties - I was waiting tables in a little cafe. They all came in together - big fellas with long hair. I remember because the kitchen had been slammed all day and there was only two options left on the menu. They left after an hour because they just couldn't decide...
Must have been Black Sabbath, Grace. Punk rockers generally have short (or spiked) hair, almost like skinheads. And these guys aren't that big. But, again, who knows for sure.
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  #65  
Old 09-16-2017, 12:54 PM
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Are you still an agnostic if you just don't care?
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Old 09-16-2017, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
Are you still an agnostic if you just don't care?


No. You're an atheist. This is distinct from an anti-theist who is obsessed with disproving the existence of God, etc.
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  #67  
Old 09-16-2017, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
Are you still an agnostic if you just don't care?
Yes, most agnostics don't care, they are just content with not knowing.
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  #68  
Old 09-16-2017, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Must have been Black Sabbath, Grace. Punk rockers generally have short (or spiked) hair, almost like skinheads. And these guys aren't that big. But, again, who knows for sure.
City, could you throw me my joke back please - it flew over your head and landed in a bush.....
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  #69  
Old 09-16-2017, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
No. You're an atheist. This is distinct from an anti-theist who is obsessed with disproving the existence of God, etc.
Anti-theist. That's the one thing I'm sure I'm not. I tend to only run into those guys (and it's almost always guys) online -- and they are usually pretty obnoxious.
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Old 09-16-2017, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Loser&Loner View Post
Yes, most agnostics don't care, they are just content with not knowing.
I actually don't care much about the labels either -- what people call me or what I should call myself...
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  #71  
Old 09-16-2017, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
I actually don't care much about the labels either -- what people call me or what I should call myself...


Okay. Asshole😀
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  #72  
Old 09-16-2017, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
I actually don't care much about the labels either -- what people call me or what I should call myself...
A comment you made earlier on this thread is entirely true for me - I have never been asked about my beliefs in any context but on forum threads. Not something that crops up in daily life.

Because it's not something I need to explain, justify or defend, I've never got around to crystallising my personal feelings into something that will conform to a recognised brand label.

I used to think the best way to describe my particular gallimaufry of beiefs was 'being spiritual' - but these days, that implies I have dream catchers hanging over my bed, incense sticks chain-smoking on every surface and wind chimes clanging on the porch.....
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  #73  
Old 09-16-2017, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by PickleBottom View Post
Yes, but the purpose of marriage is life long commitment, what is the purpose of the belief in God? If it is to acknowledge that God is a non-interacting hypothesis? What should a person do with that knowledge?

You (non-believer):

1) I don't believe in God; to me, God is a fantasy.
2) There isn't anything in it for me.
3) Why should I waste my time?

Other (believer):

1) My faith leads me to believe in God.
2) God answers my prayers.
3) God helps me to serve others.


Your arguments (or points you are trying to make) have a tendency to ignore "individualism." They always seem to suggest "my way or the highway." A brain-washing technique that could never reason with the other side. Just be happy with your beliefs and find a hobby which will make you yet happier. The soul behind your pen seems to be that of a cranky or lonely old person. Cheer up. The joint is big enough for everybody -- believers and non-believers alike.
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  #74  
Old 09-16-2017, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Grace Gabriel View Post
A comment you made earlier on this thread is entirely true for me - I have never been asked about my beliefs in any context but on forum threads. Not something that crops up in daily life.

Because it's not something I need to explain, justify or defend, I've never got around to crystallising my personal feelings into something that will conform to a recognised brand label.

I used to think the best way to describe my particular gallimaufry of beiefs was 'being spiritual' - but these days, that implies I have dream catchers hanging over my bed, incense sticks chain-smoking on every surface and wind chimes clanging on the porch.....
Yes.

And I've been accused -- again online -- of being wish washy.

More annoyingly, people have made the assumption that I just haven't done enough investigation -- because I haven't come to the same conclusions they have.

I have one line to draw -- that's if you try to inject your religious beliefs into government in a way that dictates how other people should live their lives.

Beyond that -- I really do not care.
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  #75  
Old 09-16-2017, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
The soul behind your pen seems to be that of a cranky or lonely old person. Cheer up. The joint is big enough for everybody -- believers and non-believers alike.
And it so often comes down to this.

If you question what someone else believes or they come at if from a different angle, it's because they're miserable.

Out of one side of your mouth you say, "the joint is big enough for everybody" but out of the other, you simply can't accept that anyone could possibly question what you believe -- unless they are "cranky or lonely."

Hypocrisy at it's finest.

Last edited by Myers; 09-16-2017 at 05:03 PM..
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  #76  
Old 09-16-2017, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
And there's no money in that...
Yep, you have the truth of it, organised religion is just like carnies at a fair trying to trick people into losing their money.

Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
You (non-believer):

1) I don't believe in God; to me, God is a fantasy.
2) There isn't anything in it for me.
3) Why should I waste my time?

Other (believer):

1) My faith leads me to believe in God.
2) God answers my prayers.
3) God helps me to serve others.


Your arguments (or points you are trying to make) have a tendency to ignore "individualism." They always seem to suggest "my way or the highway." A brain-washing technique that could never reason with the other side. Just be happy with your beliefs and find a hobby which will make you yet happier. The soul behind your pen seems to be that of a cranky or lonely old person. Cheer up. The joint is big enough for everybody -- believers and non-believers alike.
I think you need to understand the context to my post here, the post I was responding to suggested that there exists a definition of God that we can all settle on - I argued that there would not be any point of God if this were true. Hence, I have argued from your perspective here - oh the iwony.

Secondly, I do believe God exists, my version of God differs from yours because it is mainly cgaracterised by the God of The Old Testament and therefore is brutal, jealous, unforgiving and leaves people with little hope.

Finally, I'm not cranky, but my p.o.v. will seem depressing compared to one where a person can see glitter and magic fairies. But the truth is the truth, and I didn't create this crappy and half-baked world as my fantasy and I'm not going to interpret it as a fair and just society where all the sheep who believe and suffer and the lies they are fed will end up in a magical place after they die.
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  #77  
Old 09-16-2017, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
And it so often comes down to this.

If you question what someone else believes or they come at if from a different angle, it's because they're miserable.

Out of one side of your mouth you say, "the joint is big enough for everybody" but out of the other, you simply can't accept that anyone could possibly question what you believe -- unless they are "cranky or lonely."

Hypocrisy at it's finest.
This is what I believe: Believers are drawn to God by their faith; they don't need evidence. And Atheists could be presented with a mountain of evidence and they won't change their minds. So, why bother with these ridiculous arguments.

I believe you may be the hypocrite here. I knew all along you were just yearning to jump in with your two cents to belittle me. Yet, you write so eloquently about "forgiveness." That's why I always preferred actions. If there is one mistake God made it is this: He didn't put a price tag on the spoken or written word. Had He, this world would be so much more peaceful. But all is well: I "forgive" you.
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Old 09-16-2017, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by PickleBottom View Post
Yep, you have the truth of it, organised religion is just like carnies at a fair trying to trick people into losing their money.



I think you need to understand the context to my post here, the post I was responding to suggested that there exists a definition of God that we can all settle on - I argued that there would not be any point of God if this were true. Hence, I have argued from your perspective here - oh the iwony.

Secondly, I do believe God exists, my version of God differs from yours because it is mainly cgaracterised by the God of The Old Testament and therefore is brutal, jealous, unforgiving and leaves people with little hope.

Finally, I'm not cranky, but my p.o.v. will seem depressing compared to one where a person can see glitter and magic fairies. But the truth is the truth, and I didn't create this crappy and half-baked world as my fantasy and I'm not going to interpret it as a fair and just society where all the sheep who believe and suffer and the lies they are fed will end up in a magical place after they die.
Turn the coin over once and a while instead of spouting the same old stupidity. You'll find both a heads and a tails. It will work wonders for you. And,then, you'll finally get on to the serious side of living your life. That's all I'm saying.

Go to the park with a loaf of bread to feed pigeons. Or visit a homeless shelter to pass plates of food to the hungry.
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  #79  
Old 09-16-2017, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
This is what I believe: Believers are drawn to God by their faith; they don't need evidence. And Atheists could be presented with a mountain of evidence and they won't change their minds. So, why bother with these ridiculous arguments.

I believe you may be the hypocrite here. I knew all along you were just yearning to jump in with your two cents to belittle me. Yet, you write so eloquently about "forgiveness." That's why I always preferred actions. If there is one mistake God made it is this: He didn't put a price tag on the spoken or written word. Had He, this world would be so much more peaceful. But all is well: I "forgive" you.
As usual, you are missing the point by a mile. This has absolutely nothing to do with actions vs. words or forgiveness.

The most simplistic fallback for believers in the supernatural and the easiest way they can feel good about themselves and their beliefs is to make the absurd assumption that non-believers are miserable people.

It's lazy. It's shallow. And coming from you with all your "the joint is big enough for everybody" -- it's incredibly hypocritical and phony.

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Old 09-16-2017, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
As usual, you are missing the point by a mile. This has absolutely nothing to do with actions vs. words or forgiveness.

The most simplistic fallback for believers in the supernatural and the easiest way they can feel good about themselves and their beliefs is to make the absurd assumption that non-believers are miserable people.

It's lazy. It's shallow. And coming from you with all your "the joint is big enough for everybody" -- it's incredibly hypocritical and phony.
I don't miss a thing. I read you well, really well. You should practice what you write about. Forgiveness means "letting go," which you seem to have difficulty doing. I think you have the word confused with "ambushing," which you seem to do quite well. Lying in the bushes to pounce -- that's not forgiveness. You're just kidding yourself.
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Old 09-16-2017, 06:26 PM
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Believers in the supernatural has nothing to do with this. You have a person saying "He Knows," as if he himself is some kind of god. What does he know? I'll tell you -- squat! Einstein and the greatest minds to walk earth always gnawed hard on the bone when the God question was put to them. And then he wants to be an authority on "truth." Get real, man. It seems to me like "Waco" all over again.

A picnic makes people feel good.
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Old 09-16-2017, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
I don't miss a thing. I read you well, really well. You should practice what you write about. Forgiveness means "letting go," which you seem to have difficulty doing. I think you have the word confused with "ambushing," which you seem to do quite well. Lying in the bushes to pounce -- that's not forgiveness. You're just kidding yourself.
More nonsense.

You're referring to my thread about forgiveness -- in the context of relationships, friendships and family etc.

Absolutely nothing to do with "letting go" when it comes to calling you out your hypocrisy. It's not a matter of "pouncing" -- it's all about waiting for the inevitable.

Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Turn the coin over once and a while instead of spouting the same old stupidity.
"Room enough for everyone" -- until you come up against an opinion or belief that is different than yours. Then it's "stupidity."

You are a fraud.

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Old 09-16-2017, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
I actually don't care much about the labels either -- what people call me or what I should call myself...
I find it strange that people think not caring about things changes facts. You may not like labels or care which you belong in but no matter what, you fall into some category. I think it's a why writers are able to write characters in the first place.
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Old 09-16-2017, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post

Go to the park with a loaf of bread to feed pigeons.
Don't feed the birds bread. Friggin city slickers.
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Old 09-16-2017, 06:50 PM
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Waco, Texas, without the Bible.

You are a back-tracker into cutting and pasting. I must be really getting on your nerves.

Hey, man. Does it matter much who believes or doesn't believe? Respecting others, serving others, helping others -- that's what is really important. I know I said some harsh things. I apologize. But, traffic always runs smoother on a two-way street. One lane roads cause too many accidents. You know what I mean.

If it makes you happy that you want everyone to believe I'm a fraud -- okay, I'm a fraud. Just forgive me though and move along.
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Old 09-16-2017, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Loser&Loner View Post
Don't feed the birds bread. Friggin city slickers.
Intellectual Table?
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Old 09-16-2017, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Loser&Loner View Post
I find it strange that people think not caring about things changes facts. You may not like labels or care which you belong in but no matter what, you fall into some category. I think it's a why writers are able to write characters in the first place.
I don't think not caring changes facts or anything else. It means just that -- I don't care.

If you think I'm an agnostic -- I don't care.

If you think I'm an atheist -- I don't care.

If you think that either is a "fact" and even if it matters to you -- I still don't care.
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Old 09-16-2017, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
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Yeah, I was just as surprised as you were to see such an idiotic piece of advice here too.
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Old 09-16-2017, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
I don't think not caring changes facts or anything else. It means just that -- I don't care.

If you think I'm an agnostic -- I don't care.

If you think I'm an atheist -- I don't care.

If you think that either is a "fact" and even if it matters to you -- I still don't care.

By the way, I always wanted to ask you this: Are you that "JoeMatt" character? Such strong similarities. If I had to make a bet, I'd place a small wager you are him.
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Old 09-16-2017, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Loser&Loner View Post
Yeah, I was just as surprised as you were to see such an idiotic piece of advice here too.
What's wrong with feeding any creature? If might lead you to feeding people instead of being such a selfish bastard.
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