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I would like to ask a few things regarding SFX, Flashbacks, Etc.

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  #31  
Old 02-24-2010, 02:51 PM
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Everything spun around nd blackness spiraled in on me. *I caught a glimpse of the floor coming up to smack my face, then the black swirl closed out.

So I wasn't around to hear what Cheryl said, or see Robert sock her. * But everybody agrees that my passing out didn't cause anybody any worry.....

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  #32  
Old 02-24-2010, 03:48 PM
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In the latest book I read, I found myself wishing for a flashback. Main Character was supposed to be on Ship A. Ship A sank, causing great distress to his loved ones (and the reader, a little, but only because it was so close to the end of the book that I thought it might be real). Then, the author takes us to Ship B with a quick explanation of why our intrepid hero had to switch ships. Then back to his wife to show her reaction to the news of his death.

As a result, the grief of the MC's wife was less compelling, because I kept thinking she'd be relieved of it shortly. Blah. No drama at all. I really could have gone for a period of emotional time before the big reveal. Maybe the MC could have appeared at some shockingly opportune/inopportune time and the explanation could have come in flashback. Or it could have come in him telling the story.
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  #33  
Old 02-24-2010, 03:49 PM
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^okay, but how would you do it in present tense? *Should have mentioned it, sorry*


Few more questions

First let me remind you that this is in the subject of first person present tense

You know "..." Those three dots together? *They're called ellipses or something* When are the right times you can use those?


Second, I like having my story like, the narrator hears a dialogue, and reacts to it in his thoughts. Example:

"Well, its not like I wanted to lure the demon to us." Liar!

But then the same character who said that line was to continue, let's say. Would I have to start a new sentence, *enter* or could I continue after "Liar!" or am I missing something?

Lastly, i was wondering if there's a way, in FPPT, that you can really get the emotion inside other character's dialogue. Is there any certain tactics to use to draw out the emotion of what the character is saying? The reason for this is because, I want my story at times to be so heart wrenching, because it is those kind of stories that move me the most.
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  #34  
Old 02-25-2010, 01:31 AM
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Sound effects? Writing a Batman novel? I really don't know a proper way to use them, at least for me. I just describe the noise.

When it comes to flashbacks, it depends on the type, you can do the ones that are just exposition or the ones that are full on separated off scenes with dialogue and the like. In first person, its pretty easy to describe that the character is in their head in the past.

When it comes to fainting, if you're going just first person then the character can't narrate passed out unless they're dreaming during it.

I would find people who fainted, ask them to tell you how it was.
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  #35  
Old 02-25-2010, 04:15 AM
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I can maybe help with the interruptive thoughts. Usually if I have the MC interrupting someone with her thoughts, I structure it this way:

"Well, it's not like I wanted to lure the demon to us--"

Liar!

"--but . . . you know, he was so cute and cuddly, I had to kiss his face."

The emdash helps the reader realize the speaker's being interrupted, and the italics denotes the MC's thoughts, provided the POV is in third person limited.

Edit: I just realized I put in ellipsis points. You can use them for a longer pause in dialogue, or the trailing off of a incomplete or complete thought. If it's a complete thought, though, you'd need to add in a period at the end of the sentence to denote that it is the end of the sentence:

I hadn't thought of that. . . .

But like with everything, don't overuse them. Publishers will puke. Not really, but it'll get annoying to look at after a while.
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Last edited by Devon; 02-25-2010 at 04:18 AM..
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  #36  
Old 02-25-2010, 07:45 AM
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First person, third person, doesn't make much difference. *Narrator describes losing consciouness, picks up when he comes to, relies on second hand information to tell what happened when he was out. *
If you're writing a novel, you should be able to figure that out and not have to have somebody keep rewriting it for you.
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  #37  
Old 02-25-2010, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by HoiLei View Post
In the latest book I read, I found myself wishing for a flashback. Main Character was supposed to be on Ship A. Ship A sank, causing great distress to his loved ones (and the reader, a little, but only because it was so close to the end of the book that I thought it might be real). Then, the author takes us to Ship B with a quick explanation of why our intrepid hero had to switch ships. Then back to his wife to show her reaction to the news of his death.

As a result, the grief of the MC's wife was less compelling, because I kept thinking she'd be relieved of it shortly. Blah. No drama at all. I really could have gone for a period of emotional time before the big reveal. Maybe the MC could have appeared at some shockingly opportune/inopportune time and the explanation could have come in flashback. Or it could have come in him telling the story.

Yeah, I know what you mean. That must have been frustrating if you enjoyed the book so much.

There is only one flashback I've ever enjoyed which I thought served the story well. It was in a short zombie story called The Age of Sorrow by Nancy Kilpatrick. I was surprised how it managed to supply pensive sadness to the story.

Most of the time though, when I'm reading flashbacks, I can't wait for them to end. I think they just slow down the story more often than not.
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  #38  
Old 02-25-2010, 12:32 PM
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what about a dream where the narrator has a flashback? or when he loses conscious he has a flashback of a discussion he had with another character?
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  #39  
Old 02-25-2010, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Lin View Post
First person, third person, doesn't make much difference. *Narrator describes losing consciouness, picks up when he comes to, relies on second hand information to tell what happened when he was out. *
If you're writing a novel, you should be able to figure that out and not have to have somebody keep rewriting it for you.
In third person the reader doesn't have to rely on second hand information. Thy can just switch narrators. That's the difference I was talking about.
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  #40  
Old 02-25-2010, 04:39 PM
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Duh.
(You hear that a lot, I'll bet)
Actually, I have managed to figure out a few things like that about the views.*

However, I actually meant to say "present tense, past tense" *makes no difference. *In reply to the original poster's question.
Not to whatever the hell you were saying. *Why would I do that?

Last edited by Lin; 02-25-2010 at 04:42 PM..
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  #41  
Old 02-25-2010, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by DarkLeon View Post
what about a dream where the narrator has a flashback? or when he loses conscious he has a flashback of a discussion he had with another character?
It all depends on how it's done. But like I said, I'm not a fan of flashbacks. I think most of the information I've read inside them could have been revealed in exposition and dialogue.
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  #42  
Old 02-25-2010, 05:06 PM
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Never did quite get an answer on the emotion thing, which is something I feel like I need to focus on. I want to get the reader to really feel the emotions in characters when its shown, like if the narrator hears someone angry they can feel it.
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  #43  
Old 02-25-2010, 08:06 PM
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Then write it so they'll feel it.
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  #44  
Old 02-26-2010, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by DarkLeon View Post
Never did quite get an answer on the emotion thing, which is something I feel like I need to focus on. I want to get the reader to really feel the emotions in characters when its shown, like if the narrator hears someone angry they can feel it.
There is no formula for that. Try writing it, showing it to others, and asking them what parts made them feel something. (When asking for feedback from non-writers, it can help a lot to have specific questions. Otherwise you may get "It's good" type answers.) Note those spots. Re-write; see if you can bug them to do another reading. Put it away for a while and come back to it: does it make you feel when you read it again? Keep trying, following the paths that get the results you want.
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Old 02-26-2010, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Lin View Post
Duh.
(You hear that a lot, I'll bet)
Actually, I have managed to figure out a few things like that about the views.*

However, I actually meant to say "present tense, past tense" *makes no difference. *In reply to the original poster's question.
Not to whatever the hell you were saying. *Why would I do that?
Then that means it does make a difference if what I said is true. Try not to be such a condescending dick all the time, don't want you to over exert yourself and go into cardiac arrest.
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  #46  
Old 02-26-2010, 12:00 PM
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Kind of hard to figure out what you mean by that little meander (as usual), but the "don't be a dick" part is legible.
See, I don't have to exert myself to be a condescending dick. *I'm a natural. * You're straining to do it, and it shows.

Present tense, past tense, makes no difference. **
First person, third person makes a difference in this instance. *Congrats on figuring that out.
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  #47  
Old 02-26-2010, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Lin View Post
Kind of hard to figure out what you mean by that little meander (as usual), but the "don't be a dick" part is legible.
See, I don't have to exert myself to be a condescending dick. *I'm a natural. * You're straining to do it, and it shows.

Present tense, past tense, makes no difference. **
First person, third person makes a difference in this instance. *Congrats on figuring that out.
What I meant is what I said. I meant stop being so fucking rude and condescending to me. If you can't be polite, don't answer me. Simple as that. Don't talk to me. You're not doing me a service pretending I can't type in a manner that's understandable. I don't purposefully respond to you just to be rude and talk down to you.
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  #48  
Old 02-26-2010, 12:13 PM
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Actually, you are pretty incoherent. *It's not the typing, it's the thought processes. *Or lack thereof.

One illustration of just how confused you are is that you think you can order me to stop, to not write, to do anything, actually. * A true condescending dick would know that and work around it. *

You started this interaction by responding to and quoting one of my posts. *If interaction with me is going to make you be a sniveling crybaby, I'd suggest that you stop initiating it.

DUH
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  #49  
Old 02-26-2010, 12:26 PM
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Lin and CTK,
I suggest you each step back. Interactions like this are rather ugly for others on the forum to read. Regardless of who started what, your conversation is going nowhere but downhill and this is as good a place as any to end it.
Thank you.
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  #50  
Old 02-26-2010, 01:01 PM
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Damn! Just when this dance began to have some salsa! Er, I mean, you idiots calm down. Or not.
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  #51  
Old 02-26-2010, 01:04 PM
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*visualizes salsa-dancing storm trooper in a diaper* Uh... *scrubs brain out with soap* Don't do that to me, Paco!
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  #52  
Old 02-26-2010, 01:06 PM
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Salsa de chile verde, nena!
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  #53  
Old 02-27-2010, 05:09 PM
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can someone tell me if this dialogue seems a-okay?


“Heh heh, ha ha! A pathetic young man who thinks nothing of games, I’m inferior to such a worthless Synda? Please, your going to make me puke demon magic over this laughter! Hah ha!”

“Yes yes, I’ve lots of experience with a friend puking demon magic.” You can puke demon magic? “But I have come baring a message from Demi. It comes from my heart. Do you wish to hear it?”
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  #54  
Old 02-27-2010, 05:20 PM
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I'd say really no.
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  #55  
Old 02-27-2010, 07:01 PM
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well, then how would you write it?
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  #56  
Old 02-27-2010, 07:05 PM
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Well, I wouldn't. *But it's a big mess and I think you should examine it closely. *If you don't know about commas and run-on sentences and such, read up on it. *It's worth knowing.
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  #57  
Old 02-28-2010, 08:41 AM
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I agree with Lin; the dialogue needs help.
Originally Posted by DarkLeon View Post
“Heh heh, ha ha! A pathetic young man who thinks nothing of games, I’m(1) inferior to such a worthless Synda? Please, you're going to make me puke demon magic over this laughter!(2) Hah ha!” (Is this supposed to sound like Evil Villain dialogue from a comic book?)

“Yes yes, I’ve lots of experience with a friend puking demon magic.”(3) You can puke demon magic? “But I have come baring bearing a message from Demi. It comes from my heart. Do you wish to hear it?”
(1) When you put a bunch of description before the subject of a sentence like that, the description refers to the subject. So in this sentence, "pathetic young man who thinks nothing of games" refers to "I". Is the speaker insulting himself? If he's not, you should rephrase:

"Ha! A pathetic young man, he thinks nothing of games! I'm inferior to such a worthless Synda?"

"Ha! I'm inferior to that pathetic kid who thinks nothing of games? Worthless Synda...."

(2) I was a bit thrown by the idea of puking on laughter, since laughter is an action, not an object. But if you've been using it like that (like a dialect) for the whole story, it may be all right.

(3) What's the tone, here? It sounds like the other guys is basically saying "Don't make me laugh" (with the puking being for drama), which makes this line something like "I knew a friend who did that, once."
-----

How would I write it? It depends on the effect I wanted. One thing I would use would be beats, to convey tone without "hahas" and "heh hehs". Spelling out laughter contributes to a comic book feel, for me. Beats or descriptions are underlined in the following:

__He scoffed. "I'm less than that pathetic Synda? Please. Don't make me puke demon magic." He turned away, dismissive.
__"Actually, I knew someone who puked demon magic, before," [NAME] said. I pricked my ears... you can actually do that? "But never mind that, I have a message from Demi. It comes from my heart. Are you interested?"


Or maybe the first guy's drunk/insane:

__"That pathetic whelp who thinks nothing of games?" He giggled, wiping his red nose. "You think I'm inferior to such a worthless Synda? What a joke! You're gonna make me puke demon magic over it!" This last came out in a wheeze of laughter, as he rocked back and forth a bit.
__[NAME} was irritated. "Yes, yes," he muttered. "I have lots of experience with a friend puking demon magic."
__You can puke demon magic?
__[Name] rallied, remembering his mission. "I have come bearing a message from Demi," he said formally, as if to counteract the other's levity. "It comes from my heart. Do you wish to hear it?"


There are lots of ways. I'd suggest writing it, then reading it aloud to hear whether it sounds natural. Better yet, ask someone else to read it aloud, and you make note of where they stumble or sound funny.
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  #58  
Old 02-28-2010, 08:55 AM
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I knew somebody helpful would happen along. *And who better?
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  #59  
Old 02-28-2010, 09:02 AM
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Disagree. Futile. Cliche, but applicable: "You can put lipstick on a pig..."
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  #60  
Old 02-28-2010, 09:39 AM
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Well, who knows. *It's certainly weird, but it could be a Monte Python type thing. *I get the feeling it might be aimed at a specialized audience that is into that sort of thing.
But it still needs to be grammatical. *In fact, it's all the more important that oddball stuff be grammatically/spelling perfect, just as surrealism only works if the realism is perfect.
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