Books that encourage "breaking" the rules

[JoeMatt]

Oh, he’ll likely be back -- even if he doesn't login. Just like Tom Sawyer at his own funeral.

[Ethan Blake]

Just the same m.o. As school bullies, you must be really proud of yourselves. Pity it's only a forum, you could further distinguish yourselves by threats and intimidation.

Not at all, Ethan.
I'd say it's more like an attempted bully, or at least troublemaker who got rebuffed.
The comments here are, if you would think about it for a minute, after he's left (and he was instructed by the mods to ignore comments, by the way--after whining to them about one of my posts). There is no harm being done, just joking around.

1. Lighten up
2. Get real
3. Don' be no drama queen

[JoeMatt]

Threats and intimidation! Ha ha.

OK, that did it.
I'm coming after you.

[CandraH]

Oh no, Lin's coming after us! Can I get beaten with his stick first?

Actually, come to think of it, I'd probably give that kirispupis guy or girl the same roasting to their face because I'm just that intimidating, ya know.

[Redlorry]

As Lin has revealed we have already addressed people's behaviour on this thread, and we've been watching ever since. Both Lin and Kiris were advised to avoid interacting with each other and to use the ignore function. Neither seems capable of following this advice.

To be honest, as moderators, we're bored with the whole schoolyard 'he said, she said' thing. You people need to lighten up, grow up and take responsibility for your own actions (or inaction as it is).

Seriously, keep this behaviour up and we'll start handing out detention slips, and you won't like that one bit.

On behalf of all the staff.

[CandraH]

Well then, that'll be a "Yes Miss" from me. But only if you promise not to use a ruler. I got whacked across the knuckles with the edge of one once and it hurt like hell.

I don't think the knuckles is what she has in mind for the ruler.

[luckyme]

Heck no, bend over and be prepared!

[CandraH]

Haha. You guys are dirty minded so and so's.

[luckyme]

Originally Posted by CandraH

Haha. You guys are dirty minded so and so's.

The fact that you think so, betrays you as another so and so.

Edit:
But are there anymore books about the rules? I could dump some on you if you like? On the other hand, I think they've all been mentioned at some time in this thread.

[CandraH]

Me, a so and so? Never...

Re books about rules. I've never actually read any outside a university creative writing course I did once. And that was just the course book so I don't think it counts.

[luckyme]

But if I dump those books on you, I might be able to break at least something.

Anyway, I've never been a person who cares about rules too much, so those books are not meant for me, not even if they encourage breaking the rules. I've never abided by them, so I have no need for book that tells me to break them.
(But I could break the books.)

[CandraH]

My back probably.

Actually, I thought you were talking about books that tell the rules, i.e, how to books, so what I said before is probably redundant now. Oops.

[KellerMedia]

I once had a teacher tell us that we had to learn the rules so that we know when to disregard them. As confusing as that sounds, it works for these authors! Breaking rules can be a risk, but the payoff can also be fantastic!

I say, think like the Pirate Code from Pirates of the Caribbean. They're more guidelines, you know? ; )

[Cheryl]

Originally Posted by KellerMedia

I say, think like the Pirate Code from Pirates of the Caribbean. They're more guidelines, you know? ; )

Yup.

You can do anything you want so long as you do it well. Call them whatever you like but they're there for a reason - to teach you how to do it well. Once you learn how to write *without* those things, you gain a deeper understanding of how to write *with* them.

There's a big difference between telling me something is beautiful and making me know the beauty of something. One relies on me believing you, the author. The other relies on your ability to make believe in the beauty of the object.

Adverbs are great as long as the sentence doesn't hinge on that one word. The intent can be anything - pacing, setting, character development, etc. She was beautiful could have a purpose, but if it's only purpose is to tell me she's beautiful, then it's not that great. If it's meant to stop the action and the previous sentences are longer and more fluid, then it's purposeful and works.

Write every sentence with intent and purpose and that's really what the "rules" are teaching. But arguing over the whether or not the rules apply is just silly because the rules aren't actually teaching you to write without adverbs, no matter what anyone says. They're teaching you to learn how to write with adverbs. The problem is that too many people look at the rules and decide they aren't right without realizing that the rules you learn when you first start out are only the first step. It's kind of like the military. It's meant to strip you down, unlearn all the bad habits first. Then you can start fresh and move on to step two - learning how to write with them How to write with intent in not only the overall story, but in structure, from how to lay out a chapter with a purpose, all the way down to word choice and how it conveys your intent. There's a world of difference between the door closed and she closed the door or even the difference between the door closed and the door shut. Both of them mean the same thing but how you use them is what's going to make the difference. Intent matters and you have to learn to convey your intent. Hell, you have to learn to HAVE intent.

And YES, most people do know what kind of writing they're reading. They may not be able to explain why they didn't like something to you, but they know they didn't like it. There are many levels of readers. Developmentally, teenagers need less nuanced reading than adults. Genres also have different expectations. But as any reader gets older, it matters more and more. 20's are different from 30s. 30's are different from 40s. If you're writing isn't great, then you have to be doing something else that's great in order to maintain a reader throughout the years.

As writers, the question to ask yourself is not whether or not you can write, at least not underneath the surface. The question is what kind of audience do you want? You can have a YA audience and some of them are written with an older writing level and will stand the test of time, but it's not necessary in that genre. A MG audience is going to need an even more pared down writing style than YA (for the most part). Both of these genres are necessary and fantastic, with wonderful and talented writers and being one isn't a bad thing. It's awesome and anyone should be proud of being there. I have nothing but respect for anyone that can not only craft a story kids care about, but also cares enough about kids to write to them in the first place.

Or do you want a more discerning reader that will read your book 10 years from now and still love it? Do you want to gain the subtlety you need for an adult audience? Thats really what you need to ask yourself and that will determine how much you focus on craft. You can maintain a younger audience by only writing to a younger audience - there's an everlasting pool of new teens to come up and enjoy your books - and be a huge success. What TYPE of reader do you want? What TYPE of writer are you? Once you know that, you'll know how much work you need to put in to compete with the type of writer you want to be and the type of reader you want to have.

I'm in my late 30s and I've always read. Since I was probably 5 years old, you hardly ever saw me without a book in my hand. I always read advanced books and age appropriate books - I loved them all. When I was younger, I may have loved Stephen King and Robert Heinlein, but that doesn't mean I understood the underlying themes and subtle nuances. I reread those as adults and loved them even more (mostly! LOL). But when I reread the YA or books written to a YA audience even though they weren't shelved there(Dragonlance Chronicles was such a fave for me in my teens!), they didn't have the gleam they once had and it ruined a wonderful memory. It also taught me a valuable lesson. Don't reread favorites without understanding who the audience was at the time you read it so you can set your expectations to that intended audience, and not the expectations you have now if they aren't the same.

Don't ever believe a reader doesn't understand what kind of writing they're reading just because they can't tell you what's wrong with it. No one needs to be an editor to know whether or not they liked something. It's your job as the writer to understand WHY, not theirs.

Anyway, just my $.02.

[serendipity]

This is just my ten cents, but in the short time I've been writing, it has always felt as though following the rules have hindered my creativity. So, I just threw them all out the window. The result was that I finally got somewhere with my writing.

Has anyone here ever felt the same way?

I once had a teacher tell us that we had to learn the rules so that we know when to disregard them.

Actually, as I go into at some length in my articles about this on Indies Unlimited, that's totally idiotic.

Without running through it all again, look at it this way. Most writers tend to express themselves just fine.
If you're having trouble with it, it might be worth looking this stuff up.

The main thing here, though, which people seem to have trouble with, is that these aren't really RULES. In fact, most of it isn't even GUIDELINES.