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  #91  
Old 11-14-2017, 04:16 AM
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The guy with the rifle didn't stop it.

The shooter was leaving the scene when he was confronted with the guy with the rifle.

What you need to do is train and arm the choir. They're probably going to have the best vantage point to take out a shooter.

Once again, the answer is MORE guns.

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  #92  
Old 11-14-2017, 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnConstantine View Post
I watched Louise Theroux doing his usual tour of crazy American subculture recently. One scene finds him in a jail questioning one of the inmates as to why he was there, how long he had... standard questions.

This guy was literally jumping up and down gleefully chanting that he'd taken out 8 or 9 dudes with a 'chopper', stating that 'that's what we do out here' or something to that effect. And everyone on the block seemed to be similarly excited about it.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x65sedh

One thing's for sure... the government can't fix that. What can the government do? -- lock you up with a bunch of other crazy people. It's a mentality. I have no idea how you change that kind of mentality, but it is up to people and communities almost solely.

What can people do?

Well if kids are growing up with no positive role models, mum's an alcoholic, dad's in jail, sister's a prostitute...

For those guys in jail the above was a pretty common back story. It's probably cliched to even mention this stuff but to me it's like what do you expect? It's so predictable that someone coming out of that kind of childhood experience is more likely to gravitate towards violence and crime.

I'd agree there's not much that instils faith in some major change. But I think this at least illustrates who really holds the cards.
I've seen that video. Pretty depressing. For a couple of years I volunteered at this thing called 'drug court" -- where people are court ordered into rehab along with probation and other penalties instead of jail. So yeah, saw it all the time -- the products of the same environments, no role models, parents on drugs and the next doomed generation the que. A very small percentage looked like they might turn things around -- but otherwise, it all seemed utterly futile. Sounds bad -- but I really couldn't deal with it.
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  #93  
Old 11-14-2017, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
The guy with the rifle didn't stop it.

The shooter was leaving the scene when he was confronted with the guy with the rifle.

What you need to do is train and arm the choir. They're probably going to have the best vantage point to take out a shooter.

Once again, the answer is MORE guns.


The problem with arming the choir is that a percentage of them will be depressed at some point (suicidal) or negligent with their guns (kids using them to accidentally shoot themselves, friends, or siblings) and the net outcome will be the same or worse than if we just let the mass shooters take their toll.

The Naziís exterminated the mentally ill (among others). Maybe thatís the solution.

Or we could.... nah, nevermind. That wonít work.


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  #94  
Old 11-19-2017, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
The guy with the rifle didn't stop it.

The shooter was leaving the scene when he was confronted with the guy with the rifle.

What you need to do is train and arm the choir. They're probably going to have the best vantage point to take out a shooter.

Once again, the answer is MORE guns.
We don't know if the guy was leaving. He was still willing to do more harm. He and the plumber exchanged fire - meaning the church shooter was willing to shoot more.

The guy with the rifle stopped the shooter from returning to the sanctuary or having further actions against others.
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  #95  
Old 11-19-2017, 08:29 AM
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for some reason I can't capture brianpatrick with the quote function today.

If they eliminated the mentally ill, Arizona would be short on plumbers
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  #96  
Old 11-19-2017, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
for some reason I can't capture brianpatrick with the quote function today.

If they eliminated the mentally ill, Arizona would be short on plumbers


Every state is already short on plumbers and trades people. A few less would raise the prices I can charge even higher.

Hmm. You canít quote me, and I canít read anybodyís stories (except the last few paragraphs). Seems to be some glitch between Tapatalk and the forum.


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  #97  
Old 11-19-2017, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
We don't know if the guy was leaving. He was still willing to do more harm. He and the plumber exchanged fire - meaning the church shooter was willing to shoot more.

The guy with the rifle stopped the shooter from returning to the sanctuary or having further actions against others.
Anything is possible. Doesn't really fit the pattern -- but whatever.

Anyway, that's why I said you need to arm the choir. Or maybe just a few members -- or the ushers should be armed and stationed strategically around the sanctuary.

Or since he has the best vantage point, put the preacher in a rotating pulpit with bulletproof glass cage and gun ports.

Of course, not EVERYONE needs a gun.
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  #98  
Old 11-27-2017, 09:39 PM
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Default Conspiracy Theories

I am trying to respond to a particular post, on this page, regarding conspiracy theories. However, I am such a techno ingoramus that I don't know how to respond to that particular post so I am responding to the "thread."

A belief in a conspiracy is often dismissed as a sign of poor intellectual breeding. We have been advised to accept the neo liberal, Clintonite, New York Times view of the world that has a facade of humanism and philanthropy but it is corporatist to the core.

I think conspiracies abound.

A few examples:

1) Allen Ginsburg's mother was given electic shock therapy because she was allegedly paranoid because she thought the FBI was spying on her for her far left associations. After she died, Allen made a FOI request and found a voluminous FBI file on her leftist politics.

2) The entire Vietnam war was a fraud perpetrated by the government on the American people. One example of many: Congress authorized LBJ to use military force, against communists in Indochine, because of an alleged attack in the Gulf of Tonkin. The pentagon papers show that that attack never took place. Furthermore, the idea that N Vietnam would attack the US -- a nation infinitely stronger than N Vietnam -- at the very time that S Vietnam was poised to fall to the NLF was preposterous.

3) The idea that one man, shooting from behind, killed JFK is nonsense:
a) The Zapruder film shows that JFK's head went backwards, buttressing the proposition that the effective gunmen was ahead of JFK
b) The Zapruder film wasn't shown until 1975
c) The weak explanation for the concealment of the Zapruder film, for 13 years, buttressed the conspiracy theory: Proponents of the Warren report contend that a Clause in Zapruder's sale of the film to Life Magazine, which mandated that use of the film must be in good taste, precluded distribution of the film because any dissemination of the film would lead to use of the film in poor taste. Nonsense. Life magazine could have let CBS have a license to use it on a staid and proper news program , hosted by Walker Cronkite, that would have easily been in good taste. Besides, "good taste" has such a malleable and ambiguous and subjective meaning that it is extraordinarily hard to enforce a contractual clause precluding the use of a film in bad taste.
d) The idea that a single bullet made several left and right turns through Kennedy and Connolly, and when recovered bore no dents, is simply laughable.
e) And I am supposed to believe that when Bobby was shot, that was just a coincidence.
f) A recent release of documents, by the federal government, shows that Moscow believed the assasination was part of a right wing coup and that the USSR might suffer imminent nuclear attack.

4) The Medical Industrial complex promulgates many consipracies, but that's a whole nother story and I don't have time to go into it. Then again, I'll give you a few examples:
a) A doctor from the prestigious Mayo clinic tells us we have 25,000 extra cancer deaths a year because of CT scans (they emit 500 X as much radiation as a chest x ray) and that they are often over-used.
b) 100,000 Americans are killed every year for infections caught in the hospital (Hell, what do they care. If you get an infection, they can charge the insurance company for treating the infection they gave you)
c) Inquiries have shown that some doctors who have written scholarly articles recommending the use of certain drugs have been paid about half a million dollars by the patent holders of those drugs
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  #99  
Old 11-27-2017, 10:38 PM
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Of course you are spot on, David. The term "Conspiracy Theorist" is simply a means to discredit those who question the official version.
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  #100  
Old 12-01-2017, 08:04 AM
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"Conspiracy theorist" is, of course, a perfectly reasonable term. It denotes someone who theorises a conspiracy. Theorise is akin to hypothesize, with a little more weight, and conspiracy just denotes a group of people acting in concert.

I could theorise that Disney is conspiring to seed uplifting messages in today's youth, and technically I'd be a conspiracy theorist, even though Id be pretty spot on. The problem lies not in the meaning of the words, but in the portrayal of them. Today's media try to taint conspiracy theories, some of which are rationally valid, with the ludicrous brush, and as soon as the words "conspiracy theory" are bandied people automatically discredit the arguments put forth. It's a clever propaganda technique (although not all things labelled "conspiracy theories" are unworthy of the denigrative inference).
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  #101  
Old 12-01-2017, 09:10 AM
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Sometimes the portrayal is valid. And I think there's a psychology behind what I would consider a "conspiracy theorist."

It's very important for some people to believe they aren't being fooled by the powers that be -- it's part of their identity.

There are things like 9/11 where there isn't 100% PROOF for the accepted version of what went down -- and there may never be.

The conspiracy theorist and the people who buy the theories -- they are always attracted to the alternative explanations, no matter how outlandish. (A missile hit the Pentagon...)

It doesn't matter to them that there are other plausible explanations, computer models, demonstrations, witness etc. that can debunk or even cast serious doubts on what they see as evidence for a conspiracy. (See the Kennedy assassination.) It doesn't matter that there aren't any suspects with reasonable motivations.

It doesn't matter to them that some of the conspiracies would require the complicity and silence of scores or hundreds of people forever -- and that no one has or will ever slip up and leave hard evidence or a smoking gun of any kind.

No -- because accepting the most likely and plausible scenario would mean they're just one of the sheep...

Last edited by Myers; 12-01-2017 at 09:15 AM..
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  #102  
Old 12-01-2017, 11:59 AM
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("...there is our "fake news" as a result of their "state news", and conspiracy theories because they're hiding things..." suggested the goblin who clearly understood that that rifle couldn't fire quickly enough to account for all the shots fired, any more than two planes couldn't topple three buildings, yet what did that matter now, since none of the news today was "as it was for reasons stated", instead the news coverage was a joke as ever the bigger picture was missing, then smiling "...and thus one's doubts are well founded aren't they, for who knows what the truth is, instead we simply know what the lies are, only their lies feed us our doubts still, good for us though, because the pax americana is playing out its endgame today, so I'm less concerned over past events, instead I am very concerned about those current unfolding events worldwide, for that is where the real conspiracy lies, and from whence the next war comes too, only that that war is in a state of proxy, or is in a state of preparation still, the muddle east is not over...")

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  #103  
Old 12-01-2017, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by fleamailman View Post
...who clearly understood that that rifle couldn't fire quickly enough to account for all the shots fired, any more than two planes couldn't topple three buildings
If he has doubts, that's reasonable -- but if the goblin CLEARLY understands, he hasn't done his homework...
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  #104  
Old 12-01-2017, 10:40 PM
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("...being the wrong homework agreed, if it's past exams that one has wasted one's time upon..." replied the goblin knowing that one rifle couldn't have fired all those bullet such a short timeframe, or that two planes couldn't topple three buildings in a standard demolition style neither, but what wasn't lies from them today, what of today's news could be thought of as "was as reasons given" then adding "...simply, it's enough to know they lied back then, but now one's homework is the middle east, because that exam is around the corner still, and if one wasn't readying to that exam now they certainly were...")

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  #105  
Old 12-02-2017, 04:00 PM
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I have no illusions about government, corporations etc. or their capacity and willingness to lie or collude in a way that could be considered a conspiracy.

Zero faith in any institution means I have no emotional stake in believing any official or widely accepted scenario. I just like to know about things.

Conspiracy theorists tend to ignore evidence that supports the more obvious or accepted theories -- regardless of how likely or plausible the explanation -- even if it comes from sources with no dog in the fight or anything to gain. (Because they're probably being secretly paid off or coerced by "them.")

The Kennedy assassination and 9/11 -- plausible and possible explanations and science -- those apply to evidence that support a single assassin and a terrorist attack -- including the shooting time frame and the controlled demolition theory.

But like I said -- in the mind of the typical conspiracy theorist -- accepting the most likely and plausible scenario would mean they're just one of the sheep.

So whatever you need to believe...

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  #106  
Old 12-03-2017, 03:16 AM
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("...get that type riffle in your hands, prepare things as they were that day, and then shoot away, no experts needed, just do that for yourself and come back when you've done it..." suggested the goblin, adding "...whereas if you yourself want to believe that two planes can topple three buildings in some controlled demolition style without so much as their touching one another, then I'll let you continue to believe that the temperature that melts steel girders can be reached by jet fuel alone, as for me though, the question is not so much what happened back then, being yesterday's homework somewhat after the fact now, as for me the other far more important pressing question of "if one now knows that they lied back then, and that they're covering up for it still, then what else are they lying about now, or worse than that, what aren't they lying about today"...", in fact, the goblin's eyes were on the muddle-east, and whether he could figure that out before it happened, not that he could avert anything though, only that he'd have the satisfaction of having done his homework well )

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  #107  
Old 12-03-2017, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by bluewpc View Post
It seems to me that there is an implicit dismissal of the western value of the sanctity of life in this continuing spate of massacres and I think its demonstrable by analyzing the last two massacres, Las Vegas and Sutherland. In each case there has been an obviously simple solution to placate proponents of gun control and to give even the illusion of trying to prevent these massacres.


If I did own guns that I wouldn't want to give up, is it an indication that I don't have my fair share of Western Sanctity Of Life?

Would I ask myself, in a moment of introspection, if our dear leaders were legislating around a concept of sanctity of life, why do they continue the Middle East War games under the false banner of exporting Democracy an the 'Murrican Way?


The U.S. has had a war on drugs much longer than the War on Terror, and without looking it up I would say that illicit opiods are killing at a rate close to gun deaths.

Or we could think of this as selective outrage.

Originally Posted by bluewpc View Post
Now when you couple the refusal to legislate guns or to enforce existing gun laws and you refuse to fund the departments that could help prevent these massacres (which is the common blame)
You do reallize that 'Murrica had an "assault rifle ban", and that it was as effective as the campaign finance reform was?

As far as existing laws, yes, there are laws that might have prevented this. The Southerland shooter slipped through a number of administrative cracks.
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  #108  
Old 12-12-2017, 09:21 PM
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William Smith probably agrees with me that Hillary, along with Boosh set the Middle East on fire with some smokescreen from phony virtue signalling

“America’s boastful virtue signaling against dictators, for example, has killed tens of thousands of innocents in Iraq and Syria, created a zombie state in Libya, and may some day instigate a nuclear war with Russia. As in Hollywood, at the forefront of American foreign policy are prideful proclamations of sympathy for the oppressed in other nations, but backstage one finds the droning of innocents and whole nations reduced to terrorism, famine, and anarchy.”
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  #109  
Old 12-14-2017, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
William Smith probably agrees with me that Hillary, along with Boosh set the Middle East on fire with some smokescreen from phony virtue signalling
Oh, I see you included Busch this time. That shows progress...
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  #110  
Old Yesterday, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
Oh, I see you included Busch this time. That shows progress...
I noted in the last last exchange that Bush had some culpability there - actually he had a lot of culpability. You tend to skip past things like that, and then go into your "OMG, Mohican is such a partisan Republican/Conservative" riff that you seem to love so much.


I read someplace where bat shit crazy Louise Sawyer agrees with me, and thinks that Hillary would have launched at least one war by now.
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  #111  
Old Yesterday, 06:19 AM
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As much as I like conspiracy theories, I will address this:

Originally Posted by fleamailman View Post
then I'll let you continue to believe that the temperature that melts steel girders can be reached by jet fuel alone,
Jet fuel might not be able to reach the temperature to melt steel beams, but if wind driven or driven by draft can reach temperatures that will anneal (make soft) or keep the steel in a "plastic" state.

It's my understanding that the Twin Towers were built in a manner that the majority of strength was in the core/center of the building with not as much structural material on the periphery. In Engineering, this can be described as an Euler Column. For reference I will include a link for Euler Columns, which deal with the buckling of tall thin columns. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckling

If some of the beams were exposed to 1000 degrees - not enough to melt but enough to anneal or keep the steel in a "plastic" state then the design of the building would lend to Euler Buckling.

When the Twin Towers were designed wind load, etc were considered, but not a fire of that magnitude, in the core of the building.
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  #112  
Old Yesterday, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
I noted in the last last exchange that Bush had some culpability there - actually he had a lot of culpability. You tend to skip past things like that, and then go into your "OMG, Mohican is such a partisan Republican/Conservative" riff that you seem to love so much.
Sure after some prodding.

Do you want me to go back and quote the post where you blamed it all on Hillary?

BWT -- you're wrong. I know how you generally feel about the republican establishment. That doesn't erase the fact that you initially blamed the fire or whatever in the middle east on Hillary.

So yeah -- I know better -- but if you don't want to come off like "such a partisan," then maybe don't say exactly the kind of thing one would say. Just a suggestion.

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  #113  
Old Yesterday, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
Sure after some prodding.

Do you want me to go back and quote the post where you blamed it all on Hillary?

BWT -- you're wrong. I know how you generally feel about the republican establishment. That doesn't erase the fact that you initially blamed the fire or whatever in the middle east on Hillary.

So yeah -- I know better -- but if you don't want to come off like "such a partisan," then maybe don't say exactly the kind of thing one would say. Just a suggestion.
I'm not trying to deny that I said that Hillary set the middle east on fire.

Egypt - Hillary - check
Syria - Hillary - check

Both uprisings involved - get this - things ending up burning or being intentionally set a blaze.

Egypt is has a level of stability due to the military stepping in and undoing the consequences of Arab Spring

Libya is still a mess.

Calling her out on it is not a partisan act. One does not always have to say "the other side is bad, too" to note a bad act.
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  #114  
Old Yesterday, 08:45 AM
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But you were talking about the current state of affairs in THE MIDDLE EAST -- not just Egypt and Libya and you only named Hillary.

No matter how you slice it, you said exactly what all the partisan knuckleheads say...
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  #115  
Old Yesterday, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
But you were talking about the current state of affairs in THE MIDDLE EAST -- not just Egypt and Libya and you only named Hillary.

No matter how you slice it, you said exactly what all the partisan knuckleheads say...

Ah, using "what everyone else says" sas your excuse for the tarring with the same brush. . I got it. No need to further 'splain yourself, Lucy.
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  #116  
Old Yesterday, 09:10 AM
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Nice try.

I'd say in this case the broad brush is the best one for the job -- because when you actually say the same silly partisan things that "everyone else says" -- well, it just makes YOU look silly...
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  #117  
Old Yesterday, 09:20 AM
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I don't embrace too much of the "right " spectrum. But when people on "the left" are also saying that Hillary is a crazy warmonger then it's not partisan.

Or perhaps you helped bankroll the book "What Happened", or still have some large emotional stake in the 2016 election.

If it makes you feel validated to continue calling me a partisan, then I will be magnanimous.
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  #118  
Old Yesterday, 09:55 AM
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Myers (Offline)
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I already said I can't stand Hillary. I'm one of those people who "threw away" my vote, because I couldn't pull the lever for either Trump or Hillary.

Otherwise, this is really simple.

Regardless of whether or not you embrace much on the right -- talking about the fire in the middle east and only attributing it to Hillary -- which you did -- is just plain ridiculous.

All I did was point that out to you. You're the one going out of your way to make it a partisan thing...

Last edited by Myers; Yesterday at 01:09 PM..
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