WritersBeat.com
 

Go Back   WritersBeat.com > General Discussion > The Intellectual Table

The Intellectual Table Discussions on political topics, social issues, current affairs, etc.


Has the south just got bigger? (CalExit)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 10-01-2017, 12:53 PM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,833
Thanks: 360
Thanks 846
Default


Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
Zogby ran a poll over Labor Day Weekend (2017)

People in the US are trending more toward secession.

1 in 3 (that's 33%, Brian) still hold a Lincolnesque view that seceding states should be brought back into the fold.

The overall amount of people supporting secession has grown from 1 in 4 (that's 25%, Brian) to 4 in 10 (40%)

The remaining approx 27% are undecided or on the fene.

More people prefer secession to staying in the union.

Going by memory of the article I read, the South leads percentages of people who want to secede, followed by California and then other coastal areas. The MidWest region has the lowest support for secession at 25%.

In age demographics millenials lead the secession crowd, with the least support by baby boomers.

Where secession was typically something that simmers in the South, (and in Maine) it has spread.


The Catalonia problem is a good working example of what happens to a state that wants to secede from its country. It's not about what the people vote for (like you said one time, that's why we are a representative democracy to avoid (dumb) mob rule).

Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 10-01-2017, 05:21 PM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Online)
Heartbreaking Writer of Staggering Genius
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,725
Thanks: 337
Thanks 352
Default Has the south just got bigger? (CalExit)

Hmm.

Saying you think secession is a good idea sounds like a fun thing to say if you're taking part in some kind of research.

I'm betting most of the people who think it's a good idea don't have a clue what it would really mean -- the layers of consequences, intended or not.

Put it to a real vote -- a referendum of some kind -- I'll go out on a limb and say most people who say they are for it would chicken out.

Of course, we're dealing with a whole lot of people who don't think very hard about things -- so who knows.

Last edited by Myers; 10-01-2017 at 06:44 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 10-01-2017, 05:57 PM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,833
Thanks: 360
Thanks 846
Default

Originally Posted by Myers View Post
Hmm.

Saying you think secession is a good idea sounds like a fun thing to say if you're taking part in some kind of research.

I'm betting most of the people who think it's a good idea don't have a clue what it would really mean -- the layers of consequences, intended or not.

Put it to real vote -- a referendum of some kind -- I'll go out on a limb and say most people who say they are for it would chicken out.

Of course, we're dealing with a whole lot of people who don't think very hard about things -- so who knows.


Especially when the US military rolled in the calm the disturbance.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 10-01-2017, 05:59 PM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Online)
Heartbreaking Writer of Staggering Genius
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,725
Thanks: 337
Thanks 352
Default

Oh, but they have their guns!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 10-01-2017, 06:08 PM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,833
Thanks: 360
Thanks 846
Default

Originally Posted by Myers View Post
Oh, but they have their guns!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I had a discussion on another board with one of those 2nd amendment guys a while back. He seemed to really believe that a bunch of hillbillies with pop-guns would be able to hold off the US military for a significant enough amount of time to establish a realistic defensive position from which supporters of the 2A could mount a serious rebellion. (This was if the government ever came for their guns).

I think reality would hit home real quick.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 10-01-2017, 06:23 PM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Online)
Heartbreaking Writer of Staggering Genius
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,725
Thanks: 337
Thanks 352
Default

What about Red Dawn?

If a band of ragtag teenagers with hunting rifles can defeat a ruthless, commie superpower, anything is possible.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Myers For This Useful Post:
brianpatrick (10-01-2017)
  #37  
Old 10-02-2017, 03:26 AM
JohnConstantine's Avatar
JohnConstantine (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,634
Thanks: 198
Thanks 691
Default

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
I had a discussion on another board with one of those 2nd amendment guys a while back. He seemed to really believe that a bunch of hillbillies with pop-guns would be able to hold off the US military for a significant enough amount of time to establish a realistic defensive position from which supporters of the 2A could mount a serious rebellion. (This was if the government ever came for their guns).

I think reality would hit home real quick.
Just to play devil's advocate -- this is generally how revolution starts. Can a small armed force pose a threat to a powerful state? -- sure, but two things will most likely need to happen, a third party state interested in the victory of said force are to support the resistance, secondly disillusionment for the current ruling power spreads as far as the military causing defection.

The US state would have to be very unpopular for it to happen, but in such a situation it's not implausible and there are of course plenty of precedents.
__________________
I don't want any gay people hanging around me while I'm trying to kill kids.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 10-02-2017, 06:50 PM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,833
Thanks: 360
Thanks 846
Default

Originally Posted by JohnConstantine View Post
Just to play devil's advocate -- this is generally how revolution starts. Can a small armed force pose a threat to a powerful state? -- sure, but two things will most likely need to happen, a third party state interested in the victory of said force are to support the resistance, secondly disillusionment for the current ruling power spreads as far as the military causing defection.



The US state would have to be very unpopular for it to happen, but in such a situation it's not implausible and there are of course plenty of precedents.


Yeah, true. And I suppose sometime in the future US policies could become so divided that even the dominant center (the moderate people who rarely vote and are content with the system as it is) might become disenchanted. I can also see plenty of countries and interests willing to help a group of rebels overthrow the US government. Barely just over half of Americans vote. The vast majority of those people are rational moderates. People who would come out of the woodwork, were there something serious to support or stamp-out. The top end of our government is controlled by extremes on both sides because our system of checks and balances ensures a very slow march towards serious change.

I believe secession of a state or states would rally the vast middle and be smacked down hard. All the talk from both extreme sides is just reality TV. All of our presidents since maybe FDR have also been not much more than reality TV. They can't actually do much.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 10-09-2017, 10:07 AM
Mohican's Avatar
Mohican (Offline)
Tall Poppy
Administration
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Not quite back of beyond
Posts: 3,837
Thanks: 330
Thanks 651
Default

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
I had a discussion on another board with one of those 2nd amendment guys a while back. He seemed to really believe that a bunch of hillbillies with pop-guns would be able to hold off the US military for a significant enough amount of time to establish a realistic defensive position from which supporters of the 2A could mount a serious rebellion. (This was if the government ever came for their guns).

I think reality would hit home real quick.
You could look at engagements between Federal Forces and hillbillies in the 1990s and draw your own conclusions about holding out defensively.
__________________
If you surrender a civilization to avoid social disapproval, you should know that all of history will curse you for your cowardliness - Alice Teller

If John of Patmos would browse the internet today for half an hour, I don't know if the Book of Revelations would be entirely different or entirely the same.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 10-09-2017, 10:11 AM
Mohican's Avatar
Mohican (Offline)
Tall Poppy
Administration
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Not quite back of beyond
Posts: 3,837
Thanks: 330
Thanks 651
Default

Originally Posted by JohnConstantine View Post
Just to play devil's advocate -- this is generally how revolution starts. Can a small armed force pose a threat to a powerful state? -- sure, but two things will most likely need to happen, a third party state interested in the victory of said force are to support the resistance, secondly disillusionment for the current ruling power spreads as far as the military causing defection.

The US state would have to be very unpopular for it to happen, but in such a situation it's not implausible and there are of course plenty of precedents.
Few people realize that during the First 'Murrican Secession the Brits were also fighting other battles around the world. After the colonials held on for a while the French decided to take a flier on helping out.....
__________________
If you surrender a civilization to avoid social disapproval, you should know that all of history will curse you for your cowardliness - Alice Teller

If John of Patmos would browse the internet today for half an hour, I don't know if the Book of Revelations would be entirely different or entirely the same.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 10-09-2017, 08:26 PM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,833
Thanks: 360
Thanks 846
Default

Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
You could look at engagements between Federal Forces and hillbillies in the 1990s and draw your own conclusions about holding out defensively.


"Federal forces" and the "United States Military" are two different things.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 10-10-2017, 10:58 AM
Mohican's Avatar
Mohican (Offline)
Tall Poppy
Administration
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Not quite back of beyond
Posts: 3,837
Thanks: 330
Thanks 651
Default

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
"Federal forces" and the "United States Military" are two different things.
you obviously aren't referencing the events I'm describing, and in one of these instances a state national guard did provide some/major assistance, and ending in ways different than you are thinking - drawing from your response

In other words, I was agreeing with you, but you weren't picking up what I was putting down....

And observation of US history - when the military or other Federal forces get involved with the citizenry the ROE often becomes much looser/more liberal than in our foreign conflicts....
__________________
If you surrender a civilization to avoid social disapproval, you should know that all of history will curse you for your cowardliness - Alice Teller

If John of Patmos would browse the internet today for half an hour, I don't know if the Book of Revelations would be entirely different or entirely the same.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  WritersBeat.com > General Discussion > The Intellectual Table


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"That's Bigger Than Yours!" BourgeoisSafari Poetry 0 07-30-2015 08:55 AM
South Dakota Review Jay Writing Markets 0 06-04-2006 10:29 PM
Comparing and Contrasting the South African Apartheid and the French Revolution Spark Non-Fiction 3 05-28-2006 03:14 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:06 PM.

vBulletin, Copyright 2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.