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  #31  
Old 04-29-2012, 05:22 AM
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Lolita is in no way controversial.

It should be taught in every school, just like many other great books should be. Most children aren't idiots, we shouldn't try to censor them as if they are. That said of course it should be somewhat age appropiate - 14/15 year olds, not 6/7 year olds.

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  #32  
Old 02-26-2015, 10:04 PM
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Lolita is not a book about a pedophile (I will give that what he did is in no way condoned by me). Nabokov may have said that he hated symbolism, but I find that the book can be viewed as the Soviet Union's attempt to impose their image of perfection on the Russian people like Humbert did on Lolita. In the end, it only caused misery to both. Nabokov himself was a victim of the 1917 Revolution and may have had some sort of subconscious grudge against them for taking away his home
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  #33  
Old 03-02-2015, 05:15 AM
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Most books can be seen as most things if you decide you want to see them in a particular way. That doesn't mean the author had any such intention.

if you want to see Nabokov making a political statement, read Bend Sinister.

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  #34  
Old 03-02-2015, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by jonparov View Post
Lolita is in no way controversial.

It should be taught in every school, just like many other great books should be. Most children aren't idiots, we shouldn't try to censor them as if they are. That said of course it should be somewhat age appropiate - 14/15 year olds, not 6/7 year olds.
there is quality and then there is penalty books.
Lolita is a penalty book because the intention of the writer exhibits inhibition and exposes it through a thought process that exasperates recess/possession.
there is no appeal in negative equity as far literature is concerned.
how is this book benefit a child thinking process?
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Old 03-02-2015, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike C View Post
Most books can be seen as most things if you decide you want to see them in a particular way. That doesn't mean the author had any such intention.

if you want to see Nabokov making a political statement, read Bend Sinister.
It is the intention of the writer to say and so through they are said.
and then read.
this is a three way thinking process that involves thoughts words and then recuperation of those thoughts.
the intention is that.
it is not about decisions or how it seen. It is about the impact I have described above.
I decided the topic is intolerant to my taste so I passed for the reasons I have already stated.
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  #36  
Old 03-14-2015, 02:21 PM
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I don't think any work of fiction should be censored, or kept away from children of an appropriate age to understand the content (and that varies, from kid to kid). Nabokov is one of the greats of English literature and should be read by anyone with an interest.

On an unrelated note, where are you from originally, Nacia? Just trying to pin down your 'accent'.
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  #37  
Old 03-15-2015, 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by uncephalized View Post
I don't think any work of fiction should be censored, or kept away from children of an appropriate age to understand the content (and that varies, from kid to kid). Nabokov is one of the greats of English literature and should be read by anyone with an interest.

On an unrelated note, where are you from originally, Nacia? Just trying to pin down your 'accent'.
I aint got an accent I am from London. only kidding
I am French speaker and Spanish too

about Nobokov howver is one saying because one writes perfectly one is allowed imperfectly>?
the style override the content?
I believe sincerely that the idea of this book is not suitable for a child. because it gives the impression that is ok for an adult to imagine and think and write ideas that are not acceptable in everyday life as far a child is concerned.
this book would not be ok if it turned out to be true in real life.
just because it is a book it does not mean it is fine to indulge in such.
it is my thoughts and retain them for reasons that justifiably valid.
it is not about censorship it is about being aware.
and the very core of this book is not.
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  #38  
Old 03-15-2015, 01:14 PM
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Nothing about Lolita suggests that the pedophilic relationship is OK, good or healthy. Humbert is a man with serious emotional issues who does something very bad and then tries to rationalize his actions as he slips deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole... At least that's what I remember thinking the last time I read it, when I was 16--a perfectly appropriate age to read Nabokov, IMO.

So French is your first language, then?
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  #39  
Old 03-16-2015, 03:13 AM
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Nacia, where do you get the idea that the book condones the behavior? I thought that, by explaining his behavior in such a rational, logical way the disconnect from the norm became obvious. It was the ordinariness of his obsession with her, the matter-of-fact way he went about his pursuit of her that made him so repellent.

Are we that brainwashed that we think that just because we saw or read something abhorrent in a book or movie that it is now acceptable to duplicate that activity? I think not.

I think a story like 'Lolita' does more good than harm. It opens one's mind to the fact that the man molesting your daughter may not look like a sleazy pedophile. It might cause a person to look a little closer when everything looks right but their gut tells them it's wrong. It may allow a few real Lolita's to have a childhood, unwise to the ways of the world, innocent and free for a time, as it should be.
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  #40  
Old 03-16-2015, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by uncephalized View Post
Nothing about Lolita suggests that the pedophilic relationship is OK, good or healthy. Humbert is a man with serious emotional issues who does something very bad and then tries to rationalize his actions as he slips deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole... At least that's what I remember thinking the last time I read it, when I was 16--a perfectly appropriate age to read Nabokov, IMO.

So French is your first language, then?
it is not m y first but it one amongst others .
what is appropriate age?
I mean would you consider being Lolita for a day?
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  #41  
Old 03-16-2015, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Prodigalson View Post
Nacia, where do you get the idea that the book condones the behavior? I thought that, by explaining his behavior in such a rational, logical way the disconnect from the norm became obvious. It was the ordinariness of his obsession with her, the matter-of-fact way he went about his pursuit of her that made him so repellent.
there is that expression
too much information
it stands out in this very case.

Are we that brainwashed that we think that just because we saw or read something abhorrent in a book or movie that it is now acceptable to duplicate that activity? I think not.
I agree it is not about how we felt it is about how we thought afterwards.
reading is partaking in ideas and discarding others but which one do we chose and which do we keep is the dilemma.


I think a story like 'Lolita' does more good than harm. It opens one's mind to the fact that the man molesting your daughter may not look like a sleazy pedophile. It might cause a person to look a little closer when everything looks right but their gut tells them it's wrong. It may allow a few real Lolita's to have a childhood, unwise to the ways of the world, innocent and free for a time, as it should be.
I personally think it incredulous for an adult to prescribe in topics such as Lolita openly and call it a book when the issue really is not about the author it is about the child.
in this book we care not about how the child felt or what she would have done because the author is more important here.
this book does not debate the issue it prolongs it because it gives the author the opportunity to go on about it rather then disolve by refraining from sexually expressing it.
there is a place and a time for that and it is called psychological councelling.

had it been the child he or she would not written about it in this way.
there are two sides to a story and this one is one sided.
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Last edited by Nacia; 03-16-2015 at 06:43 AM..
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  #42  
Old 03-16-2015, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
what is appropriate age?
If a kid is old enough to pick up a book by Nabokov on their own, and manages to get through the first two pages without dying of boredom (his writing is not styled to appeal to children--or even most adults), then they are probably old enough to handle the subject matter OK. If they're too young, they won't understand what's going on--young children don't have the proper frame of reference to understand sex and adult matters. It flies right over their head, just like all the dirty jokes on TV.

I wouldn't try to stop a kid from reading just about any book they were interested in. Kids aren't delicate flowers. They're developing adults who will one day need to understand the kinds of things other adults feel, think and do. Even the bad ones. Books can help them do that.

I mean would you consider being Lolita for a day?
Um, no, of course I would not choose to be a victim of child molestation. What does that have to do with... anything? I wouldn't want to trade places with most characters in most books. That doesn't mean the books are bad. Characters get taken advantage of, murdered, tortured, lied to, raped, and generally put through hell in books. This is what we call 'plot'. The author isn't obligated to pause every ten pages and explain that what's going on in the story is bad, mkay?

I personally think it incredulous for an adult to prescribe in topics such as Lolita openly and call it a book when the issue really is not about the author it is about the child.
'Call it' a book? If it has pages and a cover, it's a damn book. And you know Lolita is fiction, right? That the child depicted in the story is not a real person?

in this book we care not about how the child felt or what she would have done because the author is more important here.
Yeah, because it's narrated entirely from the Humbert's point of view... And Humbert is a self-centered individual. It's left up to the reader to understand Lolita's feelings, because Humbert can't see anything besides his messed up ideal of her. He doesn't really care about Lolita as a person, so he doesn't tlak about her that way. That's part of the point.

this book does not debate the issue it prolongs it because it gives the author the opportunity to go on about it rather then disolve by refraining from sexually expressing it.
Why should a book have to debate what it portrays? It is the author's job to tell the story, not to tell you how to feel about it!

So do you want this book censored, or not?
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  #43  
Old 03-16-2015, 08:21 AM
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uncephalized what is the avatar picture you have?
I cant work it out
and is your username means
uncivilised but written differently?

and to go back to your question it is not about censorship it is about the idea that drove the book to be.
the topic is not fictional because it is topical to any societies past ro present.
what drove it to become is more pressing.

what drives a writer to explicitly expose twisted dark thoughts especially involving children?
is one meant to feel sorry because I personally do not.
I don't see why I the reader have to it is not my place
I care more about the child wellbeing then feeling sorry or emotional for an adult who feels he has to express anxiety involving others who are not of his own age.
and call it fiction.

there is nothing fictional about this book because the very topic exposed here is topical and happens to this day.
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  #44  
Old 03-16-2015, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
uncephalized what is the avatar picture you have?
I cant work it out
It's my own art. I made it a while back. It's an eye, with a tattoo or skin coloration pattern underneath. I'm not sure if it's human or nonhuman. A bigger, easier-to-see version here http://uncephalized.deviantart.com/art/Eyeee-447265285

and is your username means
uncivilised but written differently?
Partly, yes. It's a word I sort-of made up. 'Cephalized' means having a head or brain, in biology-speak, so 'uncephalized' would literally mean brainless. But it sounds like 'uncivilized'--so I think of my name as something like 'brainless barbarian'. Sort of a joke at my own expense.

and to go back to your question it is not about censorship it is about the idea that drove the book to be.
the topic is not fictional because it is topical to any societies past ro present.
what drove it to become is more pressing.

what drives a writer to explicitly expose twisted dark thoughts especially involving children?
I don't know. Writing is a funny thing. You step into the scene, open your main character's eyes, and then the world just sort of starts happening to you. You don't always know what's going to happen when you start. Sort of like real life.

is one meant to feel sorry because I personally do not.
I don't see why I the reader have to it is not my place
I care more about the child wellbeing then feeling sorry or emotional for an adult who feels he has to express anxiety involving others who are not of his own age.
and call it fiction.
I don't think you're *meant* to feel any particular way. You don't have to feel sorry for Humbert. I do, but I also think he's a deplorable, awful man.

Hate him with every fiber of your being, for all I care. But did you ever think that perhaps Nabokov might have felt the same? Who knows what he thought about his characters? I think some of my own characters are loathsome beings; lots of real-life people are loathsome, too. Why shouldn't we write about them?

there is nothing fictional about this book because the very topic exposed here is topical and happens to this day.
By those criteria, there is no such thing as fiction. People have done, or are doing, every imaginable evil thing to each other. And it's *because* horrible, terrible things can really happen, in real life, that we need to be able to write about them.

I believe it is our ability to imagine that allows us to empathize with others, and to understand the consequences of actions that we haven't yet taken--whether those are good or bad. Stories are how we teach ourselves and others about life and good and evil and love and loss and pain and redemption and... everything. To bury or censor our stories is to blunt our self-understanding.
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  #45  
Old 03-17-2015, 11:14 AM
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I have to admit your art is rather impressive
why the eye in particular is that part of a body?
I see your sketches are they all animals/creatures related?

about Lolita I think it is a touch and go situation I personally would not dwell it in a book.
there is more to life and words then topics that are rather left alone to dig them out again for the sake of reading is not the aim of reading to me anyway.
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Old 03-17-2015, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
I have to admit your art is rather impressive
why the eye in particular is that part of a body?
I didn't know I was drawing an eye until after I started. I was just playing with the airbrush tool in my image editing software.

And thanks!

I see your sketches are they all animals/creatures related?
Maybe not all, but most. I like to draw real animals, aliens and fantasy creatures.

about Lolita I think it is a touch and go situation I personally would not dwell it in a book.
there is more to life and words then topics that are rather left alone to dig them out again for the sake of reading is not the aim of reading to me anyway.
Well, no one is forcing you to read Nabokov. There are plenty of books for everyone...
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